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It’s fair to say that in 1998, no one who saw Bob Odenkirk accomplish a Mr. Appearance account blade naked on the date of Radio City Music Hall for Comic Relief VIII—a biconcave duke his alone nod to decency—would accept predicted his about-face to drama. Odenkirk is now alarmingly acclaimed for his assuming of anointed advocate Saul Goodman in AMC’s Bigger Alarm Saul.

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The 57 year-old stars on the fifth and penultimate division of the show, which premieres this weekend and has confused far abroad from its aboriginal division branding as “a Breaking Bad spinoff.”

Odenkirk, a founding amount in Los Angeles’s alleged addition ball scene, spent decades as a ball writer, aerialist and director, but continued ago had a apprehension of success alfresco of comedy. “Back back I was accomplishing Second City, I had a aberrant beam of insight,” he says. “I was onstage accomplishing an ad-lib with Chris Farley and Jill Talley and I had this awe-inspiring apprehension that I would apparently be stronger in a ball than in authentic comedy. My activity is a little bit different. Maybe I accompany a little bit of aggravation or aggravation to it that isn’t consistently accessible in comedy.”

Odenkirk batten to WSJ. about the key moments in his activity that shaped him as a human, bedmate and actor.

You were built-in in 1962 and grew up in Naperville, Illinois, aloof alfresco of Chicago. You’ve never said annihilation decidedly abundant about your old man, Walter Odenkirk, who died of cartilage cancer.

He drank and he wasn’t around. And he was an adolescent person. He was a funny guy, he fabricated wisecracks all the time, and afterwards a agnosticism some of that transferred to all of us, but my mother is actual funny too. Maybe he could accept been maybe a ball biographer for Johnny Carson or article if he’d accepted that affectionate of job existed in the world, and maybe he would accept been a happier person. All his accompany were alcoholics, they all concluded up broke and divorced. It was like they were accomplishing some absolutely sh*tty clothing of the Rat Pack every day.

Do you anticipate this affectionate of dysfunction contributed to authoritative you the driven, aggressive actuality that you angry out to be?

No. I don’t anticipate it helped at all. I anticipate I would accept handled aggregate bigger if my dad would accept been a appropriate guy who was about and could accept showed me how to behave and how to be in the world. The affair that strikes me is how socially awkward and adolescent I accept been in my life, and I anticipate that was my bequest from his behavior added than some drive to do anything. I anticipate in that way, the angel doesn’t abatement far from the tree.

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You met Saturday Night Live biographer Robert Smigel while you were both belief ad-lib ball at Players Workshop in Chicago. He was assassin at SNL in 1985, and he helped accompany you to the appearance as a biographer in 1987. It would assume like a dream for best ball writers, but it wasn’t acceptable for you.

Look, I adulation Monty Python added than annihilation else, and I advised Saturday Night Live to be a anemic and clumsy accomplishment to do account comedy.

You aloof apprehend all these belief of bodies aboriginal activity into flat 8H and amazement over the pictures in the alley of Belushi and Aykroyd.

Listen, I was agape out that I got a real, able job in an abundantly absorbing architecture in New York City. There aloof were no opportunities to do account ball on TV except for Saturday Night Live. My friend, Robert Smigel, who was maybe the best able biographer I anytime saw there, admired Saturday Night Live and watched it carefully through his accomplished boyhood years. I was not like that. I didn’t affliction about it. I would watch a little of it because I admired account comedy, but I didn’t anticipate they were accomplishing it that well. That aching me back I got there, because I had a lot of communicable up to do on what would assignment there.

At the aforementioned time you were autograph at SNL, you additionally began assuming at Second City with Chris Farley, area you wrote the acclaimed Matt Foley, Motivational Speaker account for him that eventually fabricated its way to SNL. There’s a assertive affectionate of affect in appearance business about dying young, isn’t there?

Yeah. I anticipate Chris aggregate that romanticism. He would allocution about Belushi all the time and afterlife and actuality in heaven, and it was not a acceptable way to attending at activity and abundance and career planning.

So, was there an apprehension it would end the way it did, with his balance in 1997?

Absolutely, in every way. It was like a pre-scripted adventure that was horrible. If there was one affair you could get broken out of his academician it would be that arrangement for Belushi’s life, that it was article great. It wasn’t great. Things are referred to as legends and bodies feel like it’s an achievement, and it’s f*cking not. It’s a tragedy.

Your wife Naomi has said that anon afterwards aboriginal laying eyes on you assuming in an addition ball appearance in Los Angeles, she absitively she was activity to ally you, alike admitting it would be 18 months until you’d absolutely meet. How did you acknowledge back you begin this out?

Right from the alpha it had been awesome, and I was accepting such a abundant time with her and three weeks in she goes, ‘Okay, let me acquaint you a story. A year and a bisected afore we went out on a date, I saw you and I had this beam of acumen that we’re activity to get married, and I told my acquaintance and I told my mother.’ I said, “Shut up!” I said, “Stop! Stop! What are you saying? Don’t acquaint me this. I don’t appetite to apperceive this!’ No guy wants to apprehend this. I’m like, so was the aftermost three weeks aloof this actuality aggravating to accomplish this Braveheart afterlife moment?

Afterwards you got affiliated in 1997, Naomi became a aptitude administrator and now manages a agglomeration of acclaimed ball biographer and actors—and you. Is it difficult to accept a wife who’s additionally your manager?

Yes, it’s hard. We ample it out years ago, but it was actual adamantine for a continued time. Your manager’s job is to accept opinions on the assignment you appetite to do and advice you accomplish choices and maybe be, in the case of Naomi, a absolutely smart, abreast actuality with a point of view. But as an artist, you get a lot of input. You address a script, bodies apprehend it, they say, “This is good. That’s not good.” You appetite your wife or your partner, to affliction about how it’s authoritative you feel and not the affair itself. If I said to Naomi, “Oh, I wrote this pilot. I angry it in. The arrangement said that they didn’t like it,” I don’t appetite her to say, “Well, they’re right.” I appetite her to say, “They’re assh*les!” If she apprehend it and she didn’t like it, she’d be the aboriginal one to say, “this isn’t actual good.”

Mr. Appearance aired on HBO from 1995 to 1998. Janeane Garofalo, your ancient girlfriend, alien you to your Mr. Appearance co-creator David Cross a few years afore in LA.

Yeah, she brought David over to comedy basketball with me, because he was visiting from Boston and he didn’t apperceive anybody. And I was bistro a sandwich. They talked to me through the awning door. She was like, “He wants to comedy basketball, and I apperceive you do, Bob. Do you appetite to comedy with him?” And I was like, “No, I’m bistro a sandwich.” I didn’t alike accessible the door.

In the book your wife wrote about Mr. Show, Janeane alleged this your “pre-therapy socially abrupt manner.” There’s affectionate of a accomplished brand of belief of you actuality not so nice.

Yeah. I was a annoying assh*le, but I assumption bodies apprehension I was appealing acceptable at what I did so they put up with it. I was asperous on bodies and actual demanding, but I was right, so that helped, but it’s still not abundant to absolve actuality a d*ck. I anticipate afterwards Mr. Show, I absolutely acquainted like, “I’ve got to get bigger at actuality about bodies and actuality considerate.” I didn’t adore actuality such a acid person. Article was amiss with me.

In 2008 Vince Gilligan alleged you about arena the role of the advocate Saul Goodman on Breaking Bad, a appearance you’d never apparent and at that point was annihilation but a hit. This has become what bodies would alarm the role of a lifetime, like James Gandolfini as Tony Soprano or Bryan Cranston as Walter White. You’re accepted for axis bottomward a lot of stuff. You didn’t bound at it.

I said no. I was not activity abundant about cutting in Albuquerque back I had kids who were at the time 15 and 13. And our ancestors had some challenges that I feel I should absolutely be about helping. I initially said no to the action again my kids both came to me and said, ‘You should do that show. We’ll advice out at home, and it’ll be okay, and we affiance it’ll be okay.’

They handled it actual maturely, and I thought, ‘Okay. Okay, I can do this,’ and so I said yes, and yeah, it’s been an amazing thing. I don’t anticipate there would accept been addition role this good, no.

Back it was appear in 2013 that Vince Gilligan and Peter Gould were creating a prequel of Breaking Bad alleged Bigger Alarm Saul, I don’t anticipate abounding bodies advancing it would be as acceptable as it is. You heard a lot of references to AfterMASH. Were you at all afraid to jump in?

I don’t accept this adored career as an amateur that I had to preserve. I’m an earlier guy, I’ve had a career, and the best claimed affair I’ve anytime done was Mr. Show, so, in a way I’ve said my piece, so I aloof don’t accept all that abundant to lose absolutely compared to somebody who’s an amateur for a active and absent of their own show. My babe asked me this question. This was a kid who grew up in Hollywood. She said, “If it’s bad, how bad would it be?” And I thought, Well, it’s Vince Gilligan and Peter Gould. The affliction affair it would be, would be an agreement that aloof didn’t pan out, but an absorbing one at the actual least.

This account has been edited and abridged for clarity.

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